Host RevSusanne whispers to RvNoel:
Thank you for joining us and Welcome to this chat, which has been provided by www.onlinechurches.org for United Church of Religious Science.  Please feel free to join in or just to check out the site!

RvNoel says:
Hi there

Host RevSusanne says:
My computer went nutz and it is in the shop.  I am at the church office

RvNoel says:
I gathered that from your e-mail.  What freaked your computer?

Host RevSusanne says:
They have computer sychiatrists at ComputerWorks They will sych it out

Host RevSusanne says:
I believe that the file allocation table was corrupted

RvNoel says:
FAT chance.

RvNoel says:
Why aren't they "Cy"chaitrists?

Host RevSusanne says:
Because they use rubber chickens for healing

Sherry has joined the conversation.

Nan has joined the conversation.

RvNoel says:
Hello Nan!

Host RevSusanne says:
Hey Nanarama!

RvNoel says:
Hello Sherry!

Sherry says:
Hi to you, Noel!

Nan says:
Hi Everyone!

Sherry says:
Hi Nan.

RvNoel says:
Linda will miss class tonight, so we're all here.

Host RevSusanne says:
We are all a tad bit early!  What a great group!

Nan says:
I like that ..Nanarama.  That's a new one for me!

Sherry says:
It's a keeper!!

Host RevSusanne says:
Kinda like Cinemascope and Nanarama!

Nan says:
LOL

Host RevSusanne says:
The full color full-tilt boogie version of Nan!

Host RevSusanne says:
Anybody have any burning shares?

Nan says:
Used ta boogie.  Would fall on my face now.

Nan says:
burning shares?

Host RevSusanne says:
Yeah stuff that you would like to say to the rest of us.

RvNoel says:
Microsoft shares are pretty hot right now . . .

Host RevSusanne throws a rasberry Noel's way

RvNoel says:
My favorite fruit.

Sherry says:
You all ought to see my 5 week old baby raccoon we are bottle feeding.  It gets cuter by the day.  Think we have a good place for him to go when we can't handle him anymore.

Nan says:
Sherry, have you done all your studying on-line or via mail?

Sherry says:
Nan, mostly all on-line.  I have done several books with correspondence questions and answers.

Host RevSusanne whispers to RvNoel:
I saved the best raspberries just for you!

Nan says:
Interesting.....

RvNoel whispers to RevSusanne:
And I saved the best incentives for throwing them just for you.

Host RevSusanne says:
What would you say is the best reason for studying online Sherry?

Nan be right back. have to put the birds to bed.

Sherry says:
On-line is the ONLY way to go.  It is more immediate, much more interactive, I learn more...study harder.  I have to be much more accountable online, than I do with written questions and answers.

RvNoel says:
Great answers, Sherry.  Can I quote you on this?

Host RevSusanne says:
I think that is the best answer I could have hoped for!

Sherry says:
Please do, Noel.  I am an online fan!!

RvNoel says:
I'm going to be pushing online instruction in a MAJOR way!!!

Host RevSusanne says:
I know that anyone who has seen a transcript of one of our lessons has been mightily impressed Sherry.

Sherry says:
I wish we could persuade Angelo to forgo all the books, and have it all be online.

Sherry says:
That is good to hear, Susanne!

Host RevSusanne says:
Sherry, much of that is up to you.

Nan says:
back

Host RevSusanne says:
It is your choice.

RvNoel says:
Forego reading the books, or instead have the books online, Sherry?

Host RevSusanne says:
Its the distance learning materials that are not particularly interesting, right?

Sherry says:
Are you kidding?  I had no idea.  I would like to forgo him sending me books with written questions and answers, Noel.

Sherry says:
that is 100% correct, Susanne.  There is NO comparison.

Sherry says:
However, I have enjoyed the books I have read, and certainly learned from them.

RvNoel says:
Ah, books with WORK . . .

Host RevSusanne says:
Well if you make that clear, it is OK with him.  He just hasn't experienced this yet.

Sherry says:
What would take the place of these books?

Host RevSusanne says:
Sherry has books, work and chat with me.  It's more WORK but more FUN

Sherry says:
And more stimulating.

Host RevSusanne says:
I think it sticks better too.

RvNoel says:
Are we talking her about major content reduction?

Host RevSusanne says:
NO.

Host RevSusanne says:
We are talking about same texts, just done online format.

RvNoel says:
Reducing book content?

RvNoel says:
Gotcha!

Sherry says:
I WANT ONLINE FORMAT FOR THE BOOKS!!!!

RvNoel says:
I'm all in favor of that.

Sherry says:
Nan, hope we aren't leaving you out.

Nan says:
Not at all, am taking this in.

Host RevSusanne says:
No, not at all.  Just no workbooks with questions where no one responds at the time of study.

RvNoel says:
I would have all of every Holmes book online if it were up to me.

Host RevSusanne says:
Nan started it Dad, really!

Host RevSusanne says:
LOL

Nan says:
started what?

Host RevSusanne says:
The conversation about online studies

Sherry says:
BRB

RvNoel says:
And eventually most of Holmes' stuff will be online, once we've demonstrated the value of doing so.

Host RevSusanne says:
Yes.

Nan says:
OK, I like being able to print out each chapter.  Then I can make the type the size that is easy for me to read.

Host RevSusanne says:
That is a big advantage

Host RevSusanne says:
I do stuff like that all the time Nan

Sherry says:
I'm back, with a full mug of de-caf

Nan says:
Ummmmmm

RvNoel says:
Swallow, Sherry.

Host RevSusanne says:
OK.  Lets plunge into this week's lesson

Nan says:
OK

RvNoel says:
The big question of the week is . . .

RvNoel says:
are there any exceptions to Holmes' declaration of truth?

Nan says:
No there aren't.

Sherry says:
None!! Except mine....Just kidding.  This lessons waas a dandy!

RvNoel says:
Is SOM relatively true, or absolutely so?

Host RevSusanne says:
Noel I personally would like, for my own personal egotistical reasons, to except those people who drive like maniacs!

Sherry says:
Road rage takes the exception!

RvNoel says:
They're doing their best to except themselves, and don’t require your help.

Host RevSusanne says:
LOL

RvNoel says:
Traffic is my greatest test as well.

RvNoel says:
I used to say, "You bastard!!!"

RvNoel says:
Now I say, "You temperate and courteous bastard, you."

Nan says:
LOL

RvNoel says:
Because I have a prayer on my dashboard . . .

Sherry rolls on the floor with laughter

Host RevSusanne says:
Insulting a bad driver's parentage!  Now there is a transformation

RvNoel says:
which says that the driver is temperate and courteous.

RvNoel says:
It's the UNITY "This is God's Car" prayer

Host RevSusanne says:
Well I just say this sanskrit  word "Swaha!"

RvNoel says:
Sounds like deep doo-doo to me!

Host RevSusanne says:
Sounds just as vehement but it means something like "Go with God!"

Nan says:
I'll remember that one, Susanne!

Host RevSusanne says:
It's something they say when someone dies I think.

RvNoel says:
Is that the feminine form of Swahili?

Host RevSusanne says:
LOL NOel

RvNoel says:
If there are no exceptions, how do we account for experiences that APPEAR to be exceptions.

Sherry says:
If I had to find (which I did) one that challenges me, it is healing things from an abusive past that have set the tone for many things in my life.

Sherry says:
We create them from our subjective mind.

Host RevSusanne says:
The exceptions occur in exactly the same way as everything else--the exception being caused by the errors in thinking that we commit.

Nan says:
At first, I thought that I had no control over what was done to me, then how could the experience emanate from myself?  I still am having a problem with that.

RvNoel says:
Is the problem then one of self-control?

Host RevSusanne says:
Does my comment help you with that Nan?

Nan says:
Yes, but it was at such a young age that I don't know what the errors in thinking would have been. 

Host RevSusanne says:
Well what does Holmes suggest in this chapter to deal with that Nan?

RvNoel says:
Is it necessary to know?

Nan says:
No, just that we can change our thinking now.

RvNoel says:
And what gets changed about our thinking?

Sherry says:
May I make a comment, here?

Nan says:
That "there is a Presence and Power which is always on the side of right...

RvNoel says:
Yes, Sherry, always.

Nan says:
then we shall have the courage to start over again.

Sherry says:
The text says that Everything would be all right if we understood it...

Sherry says:
I think that is a good way to look at the abuse issue.  We do not understand the why, but the abuse does, and we need to understand that that person was doing the best he/she could at the time.

Sherry says:
the abuser does

RvNoel says:
Actually, even the abuser doesn't always understand why s/he acts that way.

Nan says:
That is what I have told myself and have accepted that.

Sherry says:
That is true, it just seems right to them at the time.

Host RevSusanne says:
I Holmes is saying that we do not have to know because we can get around the not knowing, the error thoughts, simply  by practicing treatment--and in treatment we recognize our own creation  all over again.

Sherry says:
I love that, and if you have had abuse, it can be a full time job!!

Nan says:
That is wonderful and so reassuring.

Host RevSusanne says:
The abuser most often has no idea why they act as they do.  In fact they wish they could stop,

RvNoel says:
Which is a better full time job than being in full-time reaction.

Host RevSusanne says:
Yes Noel, amen to that

Sherry says:
thank you, Noel, that is true.

RvNoel says:
Practice of SOM is a full-time job!!

Host RevSusanne says:
The best practice is full time anyway....

RvNoel says:
Until it gets on automatic pilot, that is . . .

Sherry says:
With out that in my background, I don't know what would make me stretch and grow for God.  It has brought up so many things to be healed that it practically drove me to RS.  I am grateful for that.

RvNoel says:
We accept our problems for the gifts they bear.

Sherry says:
And bless them, when we are conscious

RvNoel says:
Or bare, as the case may be.

Host RevSusanne says:
Sherry that is true for me too.  I have dealt with so many challenges that I am surprised very little by the things that people ask me to treat for.

Sherry says:
It will make me a better minister, cause I have been there and done that!

RvNoel says:
And are done WITH that.

Sherry says:
YES!

RvNoel says:
BTW: This really DOES beat filling out answers to questions in books!!!

Host RevSusanne says:
In some cases, but I think that there is always a risk in thinking we know about somebody else's experience.  We don't all respond to life in the same ways.

Sherry says:
Of course not, but it surely gives us the compassion to know the pain they are feeling.

Nan says:
That is for sure.

Host RevSusanne says:
The greatest use for all this stuff we experience is the well of compassion it creates within.

RvNoel says:
Here comes another question:

Sherry says:
Noel, there is no comparison to what we can learn from you and Susanne, compared to text questionsl

Nan says:
Yes, we then can empathize.

RvNoel says:
Having accounted for experiences that APPEAR to be exceptions, what is our right relationship to these experiences?

Sherry says:
To know that what we have created, we can unmake.

Nan says:
find our way back to the... days which knew no trouble to relearn the feeling of trust in a greater Power.

Host RevSusanne says:
Doesn't it seems that we must, somehow, within treatment find a way to allow these experiences back within the sphere of Truth, releasing our feelings about them and recreating our mental reactions to these appearances?

RvNoel says:
I treat every unwanted experience as my "point of departure."

RvNoel says:
I accept its existence as a point . . . from which I may choose to depart.

Host RevSusanne says:
In essence, we must tell a new story about this experience that is in keeping with what we believe and how we wish to live.

RvNoel says:
I cannot depart from it, however, if I deny that it exists.

RvNoel says:
And the new story must be free of sour grapes and sweet lemons.

Host RevSusanne says:
An interesting way to describe the very same thing Noel.

Host RevSusanne says:
And it needs to be free of Pollyannaish wishful thinking

RvNoel says:
Yes.  Release requires recognition of what must be released.

Host RevSusanne says:
It needs to be a story that you can hang your hat on.  Solid and real and in keeping with your deepest beliefs.

RvNoel says:
Pollyannaism is the "sweet lemon" syndrome.

Host RevSusanne says:
Any questions or comments?

Sherry says:
Are you kidding, you two did a duet of clarity.

Nan says:
None here.

RvNoel says:
Pas de deux

Host RevSusanne says:
Here is a fun quotation I just got:  Franklin P. Jones

Host RevSusanne says:
Isn't that great!

RvNoel says:
I must have missed something.

Sherry says:
I don't get it.

Nan says:
Me, too.

Host RevSusanne says:
Honest criticism is hard to take from anyone

Sherry says:
Sooooooooo true.

Nan says:
Yes, I agree there.

RvNoel says:
First time around all I got was: Here is a fun quotation I just got:  Franklin P. Jones

Sherry says:
me too

Host RevSusanne says:
Must have been an IRC glitch

Sherry says:
Hate it when that happens.

Host RevSusanne says:
Honest criticism is hard to take, particularly from a relative, a friend, an acquaintance, or a stranger.

RvNoel says:
LOL

Nan says:
One of the ending comments I liked was "the Power back of all things will do all things well, if we let it.

Host RevSusanne says:
YES!!!

Nan says:
That "if" can be a big one!

RvNoel says:
Actually, I know someone from whom honest criticism isn't so hard to take.

Host RevSusanne says:
Who's that Noel?

RvNoel says:
Myself.

Host RevSusanne says:
Well I have a pretty tough inner critic, works my tail off.

RvNoel says:
I’ve been practicing with Heidy.

Host RevSusanne says:
My delivery could use improvement.

RvNoel says:
I'm learning to see my "case" without getting on it.

Sherry says:
I am getting better at that too.

Host RevSusanne says:
Hey none of that soapbox stuff!

RvNoel says:
Why not?  It's good soap.

Host RevSusanne says:
Laughter is the brush that sweeps away the cobwebs of the heart.

Nan says:
:-)))

RvNoel says:
Did you say that?

Host RevSusanne says:
I thought you didn't need a soapbox if you didn't "get on your case"

RvNoel says:
Ah, yes, the other way of being on one's case . . .

cardic has joined the conversation.

RvNoel says:
An honest criticism I find easy to take . . .

Host RevSusanne whispers to RvNoel:
Noel I have been reading The Marriage of Sense and Soul while my computer is down!  It's awesome!

Nan says:
Shall we go to Ruth's.

cardic has left the conversation.

RvNoel whispers to RevSusanne:
By whom?

Host RevSusanne says:
Great to see you all!

Host RevSusanne whispers to RvNoel:
Ken Wilber

Nan says:
Great to be here!

RvNoel says:
Yes, let's gang up.

RvNoel whispers to RevSusanne:
Mighta known.

Host RevSusanne says:
I will fax you now Sherry!

Sherry says:
Thanks for another great lesson, you two.  Am going to feed rackity coon now.  Bye.

Sherry says:
Ok Susanne, let me get it turned on.

Nan says:
See ya there.

RvNoel says:
Stay in the grace!!!

Host RevSusanne whispers to RvNoel:
It is amazing and I recommend it highly

Nan has left the conversation.