Host RevSusanne whispers to RevNoel:
Welcome to Open At the Top, a Science of Mind chat room provided by onlinechurches.com for religiousscience.org.  Please feel free to join in or just to listen!

Linda says:
ok

RevNoel says:
Sorry about that.

Host RevSusanne says:
Internet business cuts down on quantity.  Thanks Linda you are a champ!

Host RevSusanne says:
busyness

Linda says:
viewpoints?

Linda says:
Are there any questions raised by Holmes' views of prayer that remain

Linda says:
unanswered in the material given?

Host RevSusanne says:
THANK YOU SO MUCH LINDA!

Linda says:
How's that?

Host RevSusanne says:
i NOW HAVE IT ALL.

RevNoel says:
My laptop still does not work, and Heidy's has become very unstable.

Host RevSusanne says:
RevNoel I would like you to meet JimYoung, Practitioner from Durham, NC

Linda says:
No problem.  I've been doing lots of cutting and pasting lately.  Good practice.

RevNoel says:
Hello Jim.

Host RevSusanne says:
He just popped in and would like to stay as an observer.

JimYoung says:
Hello RevNoel

Host RevSusanne says:
I let him know that I would have to get permission from all participants

RevNoel says:
It's O.K. by me as long as it works for everyione else.

Host RevSusanne says:
Sometimes new folks are a tad shy, and I can remember feeling that way myself!

Nan has joined the conversation.

Host RevSusanne says:
Good evening Nan!

RevNoel whispers to RevSusanne:
Did you get my other e-mail about the format iof the class?

Nan says:
Good evening, all!

Linda says:
Good evening Nan.

RevNoel says:
Hi Nan

Host RevSusanne whispers to RevNoel:
Yes I did.  I just put Outlook98 on and I organized somethings out of sight!

RevNoel whispers to RevSusanne:
That can happen . . .

RevNoel whispers to RevSusanne:
Outlook98 is fantastic!!!

Host RevSusanne whispers to RevNoel:
I am happy with it. But I wish I had understood it a bit better before I did a few things.

Host RevSusanne says:
I wnat to do some introductions.

Sherry has joined the conversation.

Sherry has left the conversation.

Sherry has joined the conversation.

Sherry says:
Hi Susanne and everybody!

Host RevSusanne says:
Hey Sherrry!.  Introductions:  Nan is from New York, Linda is from Kentucky, RevNoel and I are from California!  Our guest, Jim Young, is a licensed practitioner from Durham, NC.  He would like to stay and observe if everyone can agree.  Sherry is from Minnesota!

Linda says:
Greetings Sherry

RevNoel says:
Hello, Sherry

Nan says:
Sherry

Linda says:
Agreed.

Sherry says:
Welcome Jim...enjoy your visit.

JimYoung says:
Thanks

Nan says:
Fine by me.  Welcome.

JimYoung says:
Thanks

Sherry says:
We are having thunder storms here.  Had a dickens of a time getting on, so if you lose me, don't be surprised.

Host RevSusanne says:
Its OK with Noel and I.  So you are our FIRST official practitioner guest!!!

RevNoel says:
Do I have your e-mail address on my practitioner database, Jim?

Linda says:
Welcome a second time, Jim.

JimYoung says:
No, it is jimyo@hotmail.com

Host RevSusanne says:
Nice nick!

RevNoel says:
Thank you.

Host RevSusanne says:
We have 6 minutes in which we can catch up with each other or we can go directly into the lesson.

Host RevSusanne says:
Any burning things to share?

Sherry says:
Just that the lessons are dynamite.

RevNoel says:
I just want everyione here to know that I haven't been able toanswer e-mails since Monday morning, or respond to ICQ.

RevSusanne's identity:  HP@153.34.184.87

Host RevSusanne says:
Yikes Noel!  For you that is about like being gagged!  Well I am really glad to see everyone here.  We can begin by entertaining Noel's questions.

Linda says:
Sorry to hear that Noel.  Figured you were having problems.

RevNoel says:
I've had to wipe disk, reconfigure from scratch - a three day process noit yet completed.

Nan says:
Sorry to hear that!

RevNoel says:
And I lost at least 24 hiours worth of incoming e-mails.

Host RevSusanne says:
I had to do that last Summer when I came home from a vacation.  That is a lot of work.

Host RevSusanne says:
The lost e-mails showed up again when I loaded Outlook98!

Sherry says:
Will you be better than new when it is completed?  Shall we visualize your computer as perfect?

RevNoel says:
Thwe good news is that I am no longer save nearly as much as I have been saving, because it gets lost in the process.

RevNoel says:
Yes, I am as good as newe- with no expense except time.

Host RevSusanne says:
Have yoiu been doing an anti-packrat treatment?

Linda says:
Good idea, Noel.  That's what I did after the tech wiped out my drive in Jan.

RevNoel says:
No- my computer seems to have that treatment built in . . .

Host RevSusanne says:
Kind of like the clean garage treatment.

Host RevSusanne says:
Ya just get a better car.

Host RevSusanne says:
Well we should go ahead with the questions.

RevNoel says:
Anyway, I've accfepted the blessing in it . . .

Host RevSusanne says:
The first question that Noel sent is a very good one...

Host RevSusanne says:
How do Holmes' views on prayer compare and contrast with my own?

Sherry says:
Top of page two hit home for me...

Sherry says:
God MIGHT help us, if we pleased him, etc.  I could relate to that one.  No longer, however.

Linda says:
Me too, Sherry.  I always "believed" I should pray believing for an answer, but only if it was God's will.

Sherry says:
Good to have it behind us isn't it, Linda?

Nan says:
It brought to my mind the way I had always used to pray...

Nan says:
If it be Thy will.

Linda says:
Yes, Sherry it is.

Sherry says:
I like the feeling of being in control, not my life being led by the whim of God.

Nan says:
How does one relate that to Jesus' praying that in the garden?

Linda says:
Now, I'm learning that this Power reacts to us according to the way we think.  Makes sense, but I certainly never knew it.

Nan says:
I agree there 100% but I am curious.

RevNoel says:
Nan's question is a real good one!!  How DOES one relate that to Jesus' praying in the garden?

Host RevSusanne whispers to RevNoel:
This is working VERY well!

RevNoel whispers to RevSusanne:
Yes - these folks are ready for it!

Linda says:
When he asked for God's will , not his?

RevNoel says:
"Not my will , but thine be done"

Linda says:
Interesting because it sounds like he really wanted something different to happen....like maybe not die?

RevNoel says:
Does this imply a separation?

Sherry says:
I like to think that it means that after I submit my prayer to Law that there might be something even better out there that I had not thought of, and am giving God permission to manifest the better.

Linda says:
Sounds like he could have changed it if he'd wanted.

Host RevSusanne says:
What about Sherry's idea?  What do you think?

Sherry says:
Jesus knew better than even the possiblity of separation.

RevNoel says:
How does one distinguish mine and thine without the perception of separation?

Host RevSusanne whispers to RevNoel:
I have been a student too long!  I want to answer your questions right, I now sit quietly on my hands...

Nan says:
Wasn't that the beginning of his separation, so that he could be the supreme sacrifice for sin?  And we don't recognize sin.

Sherry says:
We are all of One Mind.  What is thine is mine.  Kinda like in marriage (tee hee)

RevNoel whispers to RevSusanne:
Gee, I wish therre WERE a right answer . . .

Host RevSusanne says:
Let us take a metaphysical approach here, what if Jesus were really talking to the greater part of him self?

Linda says:
Greater part of himself?  Please explain.

Nan says:
Yes, please do.

Host RevSusanne says:
If there is only one, then Jesus was, like us, a point within the whole.  The whole being all of God. So moving from the personal to the transpersonal.

Linda says:
I think I am beginning to understand.  Amazing how I tend *not* to think of Jesus like myself.

RevNoel says:
I distinguish between my acquired (local) self and my inherent (non-local) self.

Host RevSusanne says:
Which is a way you can see that when you pray, the local contacts the non-local.  Thanks Noel.

RevNoel says:
What I have acquired as self-expression in this lifertime is notalways congruent with the expression of my inherent self.

Nan says:
Yes, I can understand it from the metphysical view, just had not thought of it in that wya.

RevNoel says:
A useful metaphor is a whirlpool in the ocean.

Host RevSusanne says:
Its wonderful when you think of it that way.  It means that it is possible for us to ask for precisely what we want.

RevNoel says:
My local point in non-local Mind ias like the whirlpool in the ocean.

RevNoel says:
Not separate from the ocean.

RevNoel says:
An expression of the ocean.

Sherry says:
I like that analogy.

RevNoel says:
And requiring the ocvean for its expression.

Nan says:
Just what I was typing, Sherry.

RevNoel says:
The ocean is in the whirlpool even as the whirlpool is in the ocean.

Host RevSusanne says:
Often the metaphor of a wave is used that way too.  It crashes on the beach, leaves connection briefly from the ocean but it is still ocean.

Sherry says:
Amazing how a visual such as the above can assist us in "getting" the point.  Thanks, Noel.

RevNoel says:
Each of our local "minds" is like a whirlpool within the One mind.

Linda says:
Gotcha!

Nan says:
Yes!

Linda says:
<the light just came on>

Host RevSusanne says:
BIG HAND FOR REV NOEL!!!!

Sherry says:
CLAP CLAP CLAP

Linda says:
<BIG HAND>

JimYoung says:
Yes

RevNoel says:
Blush, blush . . .

RevNoel says:
Whirlpools are local both in space and time with reference to the ocean.

Linda says:
There is ONE Mind

RevNoel says:
Ernest Holmes had a statement that somehow relates to all this:

RevNoel says:
Those who attempt to break the LAw are broken on the Law.

Host RevSusanne says:
Lets move to Questions Two:  What are the implications of Holmes' views on prayer for conventional viewpoints?

Sherry says:
I think his saying we add something to what the psychologist does.  That we go beyond the conventional work done for change.

Host RevSusanne says:
The metaphor that came to mind when I was reading the section on affirmations near the end was one of course corrections make by a ship's captain.  When things appear off course, the captain lightly takes the helm and points it where the boat needs to go.

Host RevSusanne says:
The key is it is done LIGHTLY and regularly.

Host RevSusanne says:
A big deal is not made out of it.  These things can be so gently done.  It does not have to be difficult at all.

Linda says:
No one had ever said things the way Jesus did.  He took it beyond God helping us if we pleased him to WE are the ones who make a difference.

Linda says:
who make THE difference

Host RevSusanne says:
Absolutely Linda!

Sherry says:
What a good point.  We don't have to get the 2x4 out and beat ourselves up for what we have created with our thoughts, we can just change our thoughts.

Host RevSusanne says:
Simply.

Linda says:
I kept thinking "What if the people in my church on Sunday morning really believed this?"  WOW!

Nan says:
What a difference that would make, wouldn't it?

RevNoel says:
Linda, it's greqat being in a church where people DO believe this!!!

Linda says:
Yes, absolutely Sherry.  I have been changing mine a lot over the past few days.

Linda says:
Don't worry, Noel.  I'm getting there <s>.

Sherry says:
Good for you, Linda...feels good doesn't it?

Linda says:
I'm going to help pioneer it <s>.

Host RevSusanne says:
Got it LInda.  I love hearing that!

RevNoel says:
Yes, you are, Linda . . . and Nan . . . and Sherry.

Linda says:
This whole chapter was revolutionary for me.

RevNoel says:
Justhat is it that got revoled?

RevNoel says:
Just what is it . . .

RevNoel says:
that got revolved.

RevNoel says:
?

Linda says:
My thoughts, Noel.

Nan says:
I began applying some of these concepts after reading TTCY. But this has brought it out more learly.

Linda says:
Thoughts about me, my family, my business, my present, my future.....everything.

Sherry says:
You Go Girl!!

Host RevSusanne says:
Does the potential of your life appear different now Linda?

RevNoel says:
So there was a revolution of the WHOLEof your thinking?

Linda says:
Does it ever Susanne!

Host RevSusanne says:
That shift from being driven by the circumstances to asking for what you really want is amazing!

[DUMPED]

RevNoel says:
Sorry about that.  Heidy's computer is very unsdtable.

Linda says:
Let me print it for Jim:  "But alone with Truth, one man can pass from weakness into strength, from fear to faith, from defeat into success, and from fear of death into a consciousness of everlasting life."

Host RevSusanne says:
We may have proved our faith Sherry.

RevNoel says:
I was saying that I relate Self-Dominion to Vocations of Destiny.

JimYoung says:
Thank You

JimYoung says:
It reminds me of St. Francis Prayer

Host RevSusanne says:
I have that in my computer.  I give it out all the time.

JimYoung says:
In giving we recieve, in dying we are born to eternal life...

Host RevSusanne says:
Noel we were discussing the last sentence in the lesson...

RevNoel says:
QUite a punch line, isn't it?

Host RevSusanne says:
It certainly is!!

Linda says:
I think with my own family that I will have nothing to give them until I have first proven RS works.  Already they are seeing that without realizing what they are seeing.

Linda says:
It's working and I love it.

Host RevSusanne says:
How does that manifest in their experience Linda?

RevNoel says:
We can give to others only whatwe have first given to ourselves.

Nan says:
I have noticed changes here, as well.

RevNoel says:
We can't give aht we don't have.

Linda says:
One of my daughter's vocabulary is changing.  She's starting to talk about "positive" things....not wanting negatives spoken.

JimYoung says:
Yeah for you MOM!

Host RevSusanne says:
Great!  How old is she?

Linda says:
She's a lovely 23 year old, married, with a 22 month old son.

RevNoel says:
WOW!! Think of thje difference that will make to your grandson!!!

Sherry says:
And what she learns from you she will pass on to your grandson...how beautiful.

JimYoung says:
People learn new values by seeing them in action

Host RevSusanne says:
One if the things that I find most wonderful is the company of children who learn to think this way early in life!  YOiur grandson will benefit hugely!

Linda says:
She wants to get pregnant again and absolutely refuses anything negative whatsoever.  I was amazed when she talked to me.  

RevNoel says:
We seem to have decreed something here <g>

Host RevSusanne says:
AND SO IT IS!

Linda says:
And so it is.

Nan says:
And so it is.

Sherry says:
How wonderful to be raised knowing a loving God, instead of a vengeful one.

JimYoung says:
And so it is

RevNoel says:
It's about that time when we "gang" up on Dr. Ruth.

Nan says:
Or one so far away, Sherry.

Linda says:
Wow, we're ready tonight <s>.

Sherry says:
Right, Nan.

Host RevSusanne says:
Well Folks I will not join you there.  OUr kids suddenly asked us for dinner tonight.  I think they are pregnant!

RevNoel says:
Thank you for being with us Jim.

Host RevSusanne says:
Thanks Jim!  We are here on Wednesdays each week.  We will begin the Home Study Course after this!

JimYoung says:
Thank you all for your love.  Namaste...visit us in Durham.  J

JimYoung says:
I'm ready, its on the shelf.

RevNoel says:
Congratulations, Susanne (speaking of gradnchildren . . .)

Linda says:
Hope you enjoyed your visit, Jim.

Sherry says:
Come back, Jim.

JimYoung has left the conversation.

Host RevSusanne says:
Thank you for being here today.  May Love and Law guide you on your journeys!

RevNoel says:
I will add Jim to the POJ listserv.

Linda says:
Congratulations?

Host RevSusanne says:
Great Noel!

Sherry says:
Bye everybody.

Linda says:
Bye Sherry.

Host RevSusanne says:
LInda I am so happy to see what's happening for you!

RevNoel says:
Stay in the grace!

Nan says:
Bye, all.

Host RevSusanne says:
See ya tomorrow Sherry!

Linda says:
Thanks Susanne.

Sherry says:
Yes, tomorrow, Susanne...I am rarin' to go!!

Host RevSusanne whispers to RevNoel:
This is all so wonderful!

Sherry has left the conversation.

Host RevSusanne says:
Hope your computer gets better soon!

RevNoel whispers to RevSusanne:
It sure is!!!

Nan has left the conversation.

RevNoel says:
It can only get better!!!

RevNoel says:
See ya next door!!

Host RevSusanne says:
See ya soon!